There are some things a skilled amateur can do as well or better than a professional. Sex is an obvious example; who wouldn't rather be with someone who was doing it out of love, or at least like? Massage, I believe, is another one. Since I got training I've basically never worked on someone who has had significant professional work that didn't say I did better than many professional LMTs. Part of my Christian ethos is that I try to love everyone. It is the shame of the Chuch that universal love is more associated with hippies than Christians. I think that comes out in massage work; my teachers called it "good hands." Anyway I'm apparently pretty good at massage.
So, after doing arms & hands and back work, all I had time for with three people, Rook feels that she might actually come from a full-body workup, and warned me because she wants to stay within my boundaries. (Rook is a woman who orgasms extremely easily and often.) It's not a issue I ever expected to face. I have a very asexual headspace for massage. If I do a full-body workup using only clinical techniques, none of which are designed or intended by me as sexual, and she comes, is that sex? I don't know. I also don't know if I could hold onto my asexual headspace with the massagee orgasming under my hands; part of the "good hands" is a strong physical empathy. My inclination is to say that I'm just doing clinical massage, how you enjoy it is your business. But maybe that's an irresponsible way to look at it.
My inclination is to say that I'm just doing clinical massage, how you enjoy it is your business
ReplyDeleteI agree. You can't control the actions or responses of others; you can only control what you do.
And an orgasm (arguably) is not always a sexual thing, anyway. Nowadays I have to be thinking sexy thoughts to make it happen, but when I was ten and first discovered orgasms, it was just a thing that felt good - just a totally baggage-free, association-free physiological response to certain stimulation. I'd get myself off while thinking about nothing in particular.
I guess maybe an act is only "sex" if both people agree it's sex? I dunno. It's complicated. But as long as you're doing what you feel comfortable with and Rook is doing what she feels comfortable with and you both understand what's going on (i.e. neither of you sees the massage as an invitation to sex or dating) I see nothing wrong with it.
Tangent: I wish you lived here so you could teach Minx and I your mad skillz (through demonstration, of course). :D
I like your take. I confess I like takes that will result in more massaging, and this is an awfully fun instance of massage. But, I think the angle that bothers me the most is that I would be knowingly doing something that would cause her to orgasm. Weirdly enough, I'd probably feel easier about the whole thing if she were to masturbate during the process because then it wouldn't be me.
ReplyDeleteTangent: I wish you lived here so you could teach Minx and I your mad skillz (through demonstration, of course). :D
I wish I could too! I love massaging and teaching both.
An orgasm is a physical response to mental or physical stimulation. It doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with sex--some women can orgasm from crossing their legs at the knee and shaking the foot that's off the ground. My non-sex switch happens to be flipped by shooting larger caliber rifles (.308, 7.62 x 54R, etc.). I'd love the chance to try a .50 caliber sniper rifle. Something tells me it would be LOTS of fun.
ReplyDeleteSorry for the tangent. In other words, no, you'd not be participating in sex. Don't beat yourself up over it, and don't deprive a friend of a good massage.
Heroditus, that tangent provides a useful illustration. I would not feel strange at all going to the range with you and loaning you, say, my PTR-91, or my BAR Mark 1 (4 rounds .300 Win Mag semi-auto), or perhaps my Saiga-12 with a 10-round magazine full of 3" magnum slugs, regardless of your response to shooting it. If that doesn't bother me, why should giving Rook a complete massage bother me?
ReplyDeleteBingo. A good friend of mine swears that when he gets a bigger caliber, he's going to let me shoot it just so he can be entertained by my reaction, though the idea of sex and me in the same sentence bothers the crap out of him. (He can kind of be an ass, but he's a funny one.)
ReplyDeleteAlright. There is sex and there is sex. {Clint cracks his knuckles for this...}
ReplyDeleteWhen the girl at the office hands you a stack of reports, that's not sex (ideally) :P. When you have intercourse and both of you orgasm in a pile of your combined juices, that is sex (duh). There is a HUUUUGGGGGEEEEE gray line between the two. If you are at a club, and you've been eying an attractive girl on the other side, and she makes eye contact, and there's some connection - a very flirtatious look or whatever... is that sex? Yes sir, yes it is. It is a step in a process that may lead to orgasm arguably. Sex is not copulation. Sex is a dance, a series of events leading up to something.
My point? You giving a massage to a young lady who you know will orgasm from it is in the smack middle of a broad, gray line. If it was ME giving that massage, it would be sex. Dirty, delicious sex. For someone else, it could be so clinical that it would not be. Will it be sex to her? Fuck yeah. If I knew that getting a massage was going to make me cum my pants, that would be sex. I dare you to tell me you disagree with me on that one. There are things that I do to Penny where no penetration is involved that ARE SEX and cause orgasm. There are other things that Penny and I do that don't necessarily involve physical contact that are still sex that also don't necessarily lead to orgasm.
So, I know I didn't get committal on an answer to your dilemma, but it would be folly to do so, IMHO. And yet, I'm going to attempt it somewhere in here, just stay with me for the time being. You've got to define your own lines on this one, my friend. If you must remain completely above reproach on the issue, you're going to have to turn the young lady away. If you can reconcile your motives and it's still okay with you, give her a good rub-down.
At the end of the day, if she cums, she cums. If you had an orgasm with a toy, how responsible is the toy? If you are completely clinical in your massage, and she cums, you aren't any more actively involved than a toy. That's pretty damned clinical, because you may as well be an inanimate object from her perspective.
It would still be sex to me, as I'd totally get off on having the power to push her into orgasm without being anything but clinical about it. If you can relate to that statement, and you are sticking with your abstinence bit, you're going to have to sit this one out. There's really no way around that. And that's where I wind this into a committed statement.
Good luck to you in any case.
Thanks, Clint! That helps clear up some aspects of this for me. I don't feel excited about about the power to push her into orgasm because it's really not my power. I know I give a good massage, but it's not an orgasm massage. That's her, that's not me. Feeling relaxed into a puddle, falling asleep on the table, that's me. The orgasm is all her.
ReplyDeleteShe is going to need to be warned about my asexual massage headspace, because that could really hurt her feelings if she's not expecting it.
Good call. Additionally, what does Mr. Rook think of all this?
ReplyDeleteAn important point. Mr. and Mrs. Rook are in an open/poly marriage and both have outside sex; Mr. Rook would be OK with it if I had P-in-V sex with Mrs. Rook on the table.
ReplyDeleteSounds like you're good to go then!
ReplyDeleteI think so. Unless she doesn't want the massage without me being into it sexually; in which case neither of us would want it.
ReplyDelete