Or is it giving up?

After actually writing it down in the Turning Asexual? post, it brings up clearly that the idea that female sexuality is of infinite value and male sexuality is of negative value is an attitude imposed by outside propaganda that I don't actually believe. I have to live in a culture that acts that way, and I may still not participate under this culture for that reason, but I shall not knuckle under and believe it myself. I am worth as much as a woman in every way.

Turning Asexual?

Back to writing something out for therapy. If anyone reads it, thanks.

For the last two years I've been dating the same woman. I have not been enjoying it much, she apparently has. That's presumably for a couple of reasons; one because I only feel comfortable giving, not receiving. And two, because I see any sexual interaction of a man with a woman as her giving and him receiving. And three, because I don't have any personal hope of being in a relationship that benefits me.

Back in 2010, one of the first posts on this blog was Giving and Mutuality In that post I mentioned:

I learn easily, but tend to take hyperbolic lessons literally and too far. While learning to solder pipe I was told that you can't overheat it; they said that because the most common problem is underheating it. I overheated it every time and the solder would bead and run off instead of coating the pipe and being sucked into the joint as it should.

From sources calling themselves social conservative or feminist, intending to prevent loss of chastity or sexual aggression respectively, from the male-dominated entertainment media, and from my ex, I have learned that female sexuality has infinite value and male sexuality has negative value. And that lesson has sunk in so deeply at this point that it short-circuits my libido in fantasies; I am changing in a temporary way at least from heterosexual to asexual. In my mind, sexual activity puts me in debt that I can never pay. I don't see a girl flirting, I see separately a friendly person and a price tag that says $∞. I interact in a friendly way with the friendly person and ignore what's behind the price tag.

This, by the way, seems to be incredibly appealing to women. A little while ago I was declared official convention date of a whole all-female dance troupe. It's all very ironic for a nerdy guy who was an involuntary virgin for a long time. (Later for religious reasons.)

At least as big as this sexual aspect is the one where I only feel comfortable giving and not receiving. In a relationship, I give and give, and I try hard to block any return. My health is not that great, and when I've given all I can I still feel like it's not enough.

So, as this has developed, I've less and less wanted to be in any kind of romantic relationship, and I talked to my girlfriend about that a couple of months ago. She has a very different view of the relationship, probably because she's thinking of everything she WOULD do if allowed rather than how I feel guilty for any giving she gets past me. She seemed to kind of blow off my feelings as something that could be fixed with antidepressants. Then she was diagnosed with cancer.

I threw myself into taking care of her as much as I could and moved the whole not wanting to be in a relationship thing aside. My work has suffered and I've been feeling pretty bad; I've had a cough for over three weeks now. I have an appointment with a doctor tomorrow for the first time in about four years.

She's been telling people that I'm her angel, and the only thing I feel is guilty that I haven't done enough. How can I be happy in a relationship thinking like this?

Rereading Giving and Mutuality was a little depressing because I have gone the opposite direction from what I was hoping there.

But in another way I feel like I'm getting closer to the Nirvana of freedom from desire. I don't really even want to change. I know there are men out there who are happier than they would have been alone, some of you used to read this, but such husbands seem so few, and I was so miserable in those last years with my ex.

Glamer Problem

That's not a misspelling; it's one of the ways they spelled 'glamour' when it still meant a magic spell rather than high fashion.

On my birthday, in early July, Sparkly Girl gave me a framed photo of me with four of my female friends around me. She told me it was a reminder of some of the women that adore me. Every girl that has actually gone out for me has fallen for me; the longer it's gone the harder they've fallen. My current girlfriend, and the one before, have both spontaneously called me both 'Mr. Awesome' and 'Mr. Wonderful'. I've realized that I've become one of those people that just has something about them. I've know women who had the same thing; almost every guy loved them, though there were other women around who were just as nice, or prettier.

But this effect made a problem for me when I tried to date around, meet girls. My OKCupid profile said that I wanted to meet lots of people and keep it strictly platonic. My girlfriend, the very first girl that I went on a date with, told me that by the second date, she knew she was jumping with both feet; it might lead to heartbreak, but she thinks I'm worth the risk. Now there's kind of an enthusiasm gap. I like her, there's not a thing wrong with her, but she's not my perfect girl. I don't feel as much enthusiasm as I did meeting my second wife*. And I don't feel as much enthusiasm as she does.

The failure of my platonic plan was my fault, of course. And I contributed to it in lots of ways. One way was that I got carried away by someone who really likes me sexually. At the end of the second date, we were out at our cars, and she was looking at me rather starry-eyed. I said, I'd really like to kiss you now. She said, So kiss me then. I did and she responded hard; ending up leaning bonelessly back against her car, panting and groaning, head back, just from her response to the way I kiss and neck. Those of you who have know what it's like to feel undesirable can imagine the effect on me. I felt ten feet tall and shining.

The glamer seems to work on kids too. She, her six-year-old daughter, and I went to the mountains for a weekend recently. At the end of the trip, her daughter started shouting at her mother, "Marry him! Marry him!" So now I'm in a position to break two hearts instead of one, if it doesn't work out; and I can't see any way out without breaking both hearts. It makes me feel like I'm already committed to marry after only a few months, because I can't see a path out if I decide I want one.

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* Though it turned out a lot of those things I loved about my second wife were only to impress people rather than to actually use for a loved one; like the fancy cooking was only for parties never for home.

At War With My Tastes

I'm still at war with my tastes in women's looks. I can't seem to change them. The war has been heating up again as women who do match my tastes show interest.

Part of the problem is that my best women friends do not match where my tastes run, and they already feel bad about their bodies. I feel like by acknowledging what I like, I am betraying them. I feel like by admitting I don't want someone who looks like them, I am devaluing them.

Also, I know if I marry someone I am attracted to and lack of sex becomes a problem again, I will blame myself endlessly for being shallow in choosing her. (It's what I did last time, too.) There is an undercurrent in my mind that is afraid of women who attract me, that thinks if I pick a conventionally unattractive woman and it all goes wrong again at least I'll be less harsh on myself. And also, that a less conventionally attractive woman may at least continue to like my looks even if she doesn't much want to have sex with me.

At least I'm not like this all the time anymore, this is coming from one of my downswings.

Found in the attic

When I was with my ex, I controlled my sexuality in two ways:

1) I saved it entirely for her. Her last husband cheated on her so I always acted as if she might be extra sensitive about that.

2) As I've mentioned here before, with her lack of openness about sex I controlled, or repressed, everything that I thought she might feel was too demanding. (with the opposite result that I'd intended.)

Last week involved a lot of thinking how to politely and kindly deflect some offers. It seems, logically enough, that as my confidence comes back I get more attention, which boosts my confidence. Now, with the attention I've been getting lately, to which I'm quite unaccustomed, I no longer feel like my kinks are too demanding; I'm feeling more like they are what they are, you have to mostly accept them if you happen to want me. (Don't worry, I'm not going to get egotistical; I'll never forget for example that most women prefer skinny pretty guys to my type.)

I feel like so much of my sexuality was boxed up and stuck in the attic, and I'm only now taking the box down and looking through it. Sure, I remembered it, but it wasn't present and active. To choose a fairly vanilla example, I've barely looked at softcore porn based on photographs of naked women posing. I always got too hung up on the idea that they couldn't concieveably be interested. Now I still don't think any porn stars would be interested, but I don't get so hung up on that as to be unable to fantasize. And the kinks; it used to be that hentai (unreal and so less unattainable) of footjobs was what I went too almost all the time. Now I'm enjoying some of the other stuff I really haven't got anything from in years.

Craving

After nearly two years, generally craving sex is much more manageable for me than it was early on. But some days are worse than others. This is a bad day.

It's probably because of a combination of things; friends lent me Secretary and Shortbus to watch, pointed out the huge gap between my actual rules (no causing orgasms) and behavior (almost totally asexual), there was the ego hit from finding out the poly girl New Year's Eve had been prompted and then there was the contrary emotion when another friend (who has told me she's had a crush on me for a decade) confided she'd dreamed about me following a massage with anal sex on the massage table.

Sometimes celibacy is really tough.

Wrong For Me

I think it would be wise for me to go over some of the ways my ex is wrong for me to help me keep in mind that it was really not that great before she left anyway. It's a shame that none of you reading this blog get to see her good side here, but, the blog is about what I need to talk about and can't to people who know her.

Reluctance for intimate personal communication, especially about sex
Lack of moral courage (she has physical courage)
Lack of a giving spirit matching mine, especially in sex
Very poor at admitting mistakes or shortcomings
Not a Christian
Not truly serious about vows
Kinks seriously don't match (she's very into S&M, I'm not so much; she's into taking or having taken, I'm into giving or receiving giving)
Devotion to her work is far greater than devotion to her partner
Lack of introspection

Almost any of these would be a dealbreaker by itself if I were looking for someone new. All of them together?

I am a kindly reptile.

I was recently reading the Wikipedia entry on John Lee's classification of love styles. The short version is:

* Eros - a passionate physical and emotional love based on aesthetic enjoyment; stereotype of romantic love
* Ludus - a love that is played as a game or sport; conquest; may have multiple partners at once
* Storge - an affectionate love that slowly develops from friendship, based on similarity (kindred to Philia)
* Pragma - love that is driven by the head, not the heart; undemonstrative
* Mania - obsessive love; experience great emotional highs and lows; very possessive and often jealous lovers
* Agape - selfless altruistic love; spiritual

I was thinking how I exhibit Eros and Agape but most of all Storge. If not for my religious position, I could, I think, fairly easily suck a bisexual male friend's cock simply because it's not a big deal to me. That's Storge. I would not get off on it, or want the favor returned, because it wouldn't be a favor; it has no appeal. Men do not attract me, many women do; that's Eros.

Reading about it, I hit this bit: "disadvantages [of Storge] may include a lack of passion and potential boredom in the relationship." It hit me then that that was probably what my ex could never explain, and what she's probably looking for now with the consensual nonconsent. Passion; fire; abandon. I am so very polite and careful, almost all the time; I am warm and caring (though I became cooler as the relationship worsened) but never hot and passionate.

I wanted to be hotter and more passionate, but I didn't feel like I could with the lack of communication. What did she like? What was OK? What made her happy? I wanted to let myself go more, but I had no idea where I could go. I was more passionate about submission than anything else, because there I felt letting myself go was safe for both of us. But in general, the less I thought she appreciated me, the more diffident I became. Not hot, not passionate. Cold-blooded. A kindly reptile.

And I imagine that explaining it would have made it not count. If she has to say "take me", then she isn't exactly being taken right? She's still giving herself. If she wants reckless abandon, and she has to say "don't worry if you hurt me a little pinning my wrists, I'll like it," then there isn't really reckless abandon.

But to be perfectly honest, I do not see that the kink as in the above paragraph can be indulged without evil. "Taking", if it is for real, if there is no consent, is rape isn't it? And if it requires telepathy to distinguish it from rape, well, I don't believe in telepathy. I don't want to minimize the difficulty of coming out and saying what you want, and I can't imagine what impact it has on the fantasy. But as far as I can see it just has to be done. After all, when a Christian with my idea of chastity marries, we forsake all other possible future partners. That ain't how our fantasies run either.

I'm no longer sure how into consensual nonconsent my ex is. She has a now-proven tendency to adapt herself to a new guy. Seeing as her previous husband left her over the lack of sex, I think this might seem just perfect for someone who doesn't care about sex much beyond the new romance period but doesn't want to admit to herself that she doesn't. If so, it'll probably lead to a break-up in several years as consensual nonconsent turns gradually to apathetic nonconsent. I'm trying hard to hope it doesn't. To that end, I'm praying that it doesn't.

Addendum to giving vs. having taken.

Thinking about it some more, or more precisely catching myself in a fantasy, if I were caught in the right lonely mood AND if I hadn't already resolved to be abstinent until marriage, I might actually play submissive somewhat casually. Which doesn't sound as cool as what I wrote before did. This doesn't contradict anything I wrote about giving vs. having taken, but under the right circumstances I would give much more casually than one might think just from that post.

Terry Pratchett character

So, last week I was told my wife left me because I'm not rapey enough, and she was probably hurt by me not objectifying her enough.

This weekend, I struck up a conversation with a very nice woman at Dorian's*, and she explained to me why she saw abstinence as not being required of Christians and called me (smilingly) evil when I massaged her shoulders and wicked when I massaged her hands because of the abstinence thing.

Then, yesterday, a close female friend explained to me about how I was too focused and attentive when conversing with a woman and how my failure to look at passing asses robbed the woman I was talking to of the opportunity to check her teeth for spinach and wipe her nose.

So, it struck me this morning: I am a living Terry Pratchett character. My narrative purpose is to illustrate the chasm between what polite society says women want from male romantic interests, and the, er, more varied and colorful reality. I think I may change my name on FetLife to Carrot Ironfounderssen or something.

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* Every few months when I'm feeling down I do a sort of dry run at picking up women; partly because I just like talking to new people and tend to like them and find them interesting, and partly because it cheers me up a lot to check that I'm abstinent by choice rather than social incompetence. As you can tell I explain the abstinence thing very soon. [UPDATE] Oh, also I explained the not-mentally-ready-for-more-than-friends thing even sooner.

Given vs. having taken

[Edited this post because I got cranky about my ex's attitude in the original.]

Seems to me there are two general attitudes toward submission to be found out there. Either you prefer to give submission or have it taken, have it given or take it. It seems to me that the desire to have it taken is a bit more common in women and the desire to give it is a bit more common in men.

I think my attitude is rather unusual. I read a submissive once say that her submission was too valuable to be given away, it had to be earned by being taken.

Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils. -- Major General John Stark, the Hero of Bennington

My submission is far to valuable to be taken; if you try one of us will die first. (And I don't think it will be me, but if it is that's OK.)

The paradox is that I will give (and have given) it freely, casually, and commonly to my wife. If you marry me, it is yours, that is part of the covenant between us. And another part is that your submission is likewise mine. I want us both to likewise regard yours as far to valuable to be taken; but I want you to give yours as freely, casually, and commonly as I.

This isn't to say I don't have fun playing having my submission forced sometimes, but that's play. The way I voluntarily submit to someone I love has reality behind it.

Addendum.

A few anecdotes about objectification and consent

I'm going to give a few stories to help define what I mean when I say I don't objectify and don't kink on rape; I don't want to sound like I'm claiming more that I fulfil and also I want to narrow it down a bit.

I played a rape scene once, where I told my ex beforehand that I wanted her to pretend to want the sex but require the excuse of force to escape cultural mores. Medieval setting with me as highwayman; words like "no", "stop", "don't" were all to be taken at face value. I very much enjoyed that, particularly the feeling of being in charge, and would love to repeat it. But it did not make me want anything harder.

I've told this story before but, I had sex with her once, without getting affirmative consent first. After about seven years of marriage, after she'd orgasmed from the common morning cunnilingus and was laying back naked on the bed, I got on top of her, kissing her neck, and penetrated her, without waiting for affirmation. She seemed to enjoy it; though in retrospect it may have been much too little too late for her unexpressed preference, mostly a reminder of the consensual nonconsent she wasn't enjoying. (Those morning cunnilingus sessions, with no release for me, tended to leave me very frustrated. But I still miss them very much; that was when I felt closest to her, and most useful.) Given that part of our marriage arrangement was the verbal agreement that we'd be each other's whore and love slave, I don't feel like this was wrong. But I'd appreciate comments on whether others see it the same way; am I being ridiculous to ask or does that story seem uncomfortable?

My ex suffered juvenile-onset Type 1 diabetes and often got loopy from insulin reaction; she was at her most forward at those times. (Her reaction was very like drunkeness). Once, during an insulin reaction, she pointed out that I'd never had her when her sugar was low. I told her I was uncomfortable with the idea of sex when she was not her normal self; I didn't feel like it was proper consent.

I do enjoy looking at women, but definitely not as much as most guys (or most bisexual girls I know for that matter). I do not tend to look very long; I get uncomfortable. This has a little bit to do with not wanting to objectify but a lot more to do with not wanting to make the person being looked at uncomfortable, feeling like it's wrong to stare at someone if I don't know for sure that they are into me. I absolutely know that I take this one to a ridiculous level because I feel uncomfortable watching burlesque acts on stage. Especially at a venue like a small stage at Wicked Faire or Dorian's where there isn't a lot of money in it; her motive for being up there stripping isn't because she wants people to modestly look away.

At Wicked Faire, at breakfast on the last day, I was staring at the Pretty Librarian without realizing I was doing it. This was after the night when she'd had a migraine and I stayed with her in the darkened hotel room holding her hand. I was feeling pretty sexually wrought up. She wondered why I was looking at her and I apologized and explained it was because she was really pretty, then made much more effort to look away.

At my birthday party one of my friends made a joke about nibbling on a woman's neck; she indicated that the reality would be unwelcome and he pursued it verbally a bit. I said if he nibbled on hers, I would nibble on his (he's quite straight). He walked over to me and kind of craned his neck, so I did. (His wife complains that she was doing something else and missed most of it; he complains that my beard tickled.) Note: Not wanting your neck nibbled by a man when you're a straight man isn't homophobia, it's simply not being into that person or situation the same as the woman not wanting it was.

My Terrible Secret

So, I think I finally have a handle on the horrible secret I've been feeling I have that will never allow me to have a fulfilling marriage. And it's the only thing that makes me feel unmanly; not necking with a guy (long story), not that I like to cook or sew sometimes, not that I've gone folk dancing purely of my own accord. Ready for it?

I don't like lack of enthusiasm.

Regular readers already know a lot about this. I don't like rape. I don't fantasize about it. There is no secret forbidden thrill of "what if I could do this for real" when acting it out.

It goes further though. The real killer from my perspective is that if a woman isn't interested in me I likewise have no interest in her at all. I don't care what she looks like, it's irrelevant. You could line up every star of stage and screen and porn flick in a huge room and tell me "You can do whatever you want with them, they won't care a bit" and I wouldn't pay a dime to enter. If they were all perfectly conscious and capable of saying no but simply wouldn't because they thought it was just body mechanics, and they wouldn't regret anything that happened, and somehow there was nothing shady about the whole deal? I have no interest at all.

Words like "girly" or "gay" tend to be used to indicate unmanliness. I wouldn't associate this attitude with either group. But it feels profoundly unmanly to me. Men are supposed to want attractive women regardless of what the women want; we are just supposed to hold ourselves in check and be polite. I don't HAVE to hold myself in check, I don't want that at all.

There might be a temptation to think that I'm bragging about being the perfect guy, what every woman wants. I would have thought that once; not for a long time now. How much of women's fantasy is based on the woman being wanted despite her attitude? Why do the bodices get ripped in a bodice-ripper? So many of the women I know in meatspace have rape fantasies; actually every one of them that's told me one way or the other. They don't want to have them with a guy who would have zero sexual interest in them if they played hard-to-get. And in popular culture; when is the last time you saw a rom-com featuring a guy who doesn't fall for the girl until she shows interest?

That's why this makes me feel unmanly where nothing else does. There seriously aren't a lot of women who would object to me cooking or sewing or folk-dancing for a split second. There are a fucking metric buttload who would never feel like a woman with a man who didn't want their body as an object at all.

My question at this point is how many women would really, deep down, want a man who felt like I do?

Being an Asshole through Inordinate Humility

Part of humility is not overrating the degree and quality of one's own talents and gifts; underrating them does not make one more humble. Another part is not overatting the importance or merit of those gifts, or oneself. I'm thinking in terms of people like Wagner, who think their gifts mean they deserve special treatment from the world around them.

Underrating one's gifts is not really humility and can be bad in many ways. For one thing, you may not use them to the fullest. But what I want to talk about is that you may not be sufficiently careful with them.

I know, even deep down, I'm very strong; stronger than I look. At Aikido once, we were practicing a throw that involved taking an opponent's (uke's) legs out from under them; it was a difficult fall we hadn't practiced much, and there were some bad backs and shoulders present, so we were supposed to help ease the uke's fall with the other arm. I simply picked them up, turned them sideways, and set them gently down on the mat. After I did this to my teacher, a muscular six-footer, he said "It's like he's holding a baby isn't it?" If I thought I was weak, if I wasn't careful, if I acted like certain small thin sedentary people of my acquaintance in college, I would really hurt people. I have to know that I'm stronger than they and must act differently.

Deep down, I don't really believe people are attracted to me. Sure, I know it on the surface, but not deep down. So I haven't been, and am not, as careful as I should have been. A small example that hit me recently was when I was at the last Dorian's Parlor, in my tux and tophat, with my hair down and flowing over my shoulders. (I have really nice hair; if I saw it on a woman I'd love it.) Sparkly Girl was saying how sexy I looked, which I took as mostly kindness. Playing along I said, how about if I do my Rudolph Valentino look (source), and demonstrated. The smile fled from her face, she looked down, and said, "Don't do that." And it wasn't because I did it wrong and looked like a serial killer focusing on an intended victim (which you totally do if you try this and miss.) She actually found me so attractive that it bothered her. And I find that very hard to assimilate. I know it, but I don't really believe it.

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that this is not the fault of women in general or even my exes in specific. I've had this problem for a long time, and while it was reinforced by the way my marriages have gone wrong, it was not created that way. Lots of women have been very kind in terms of trying to help me over this; but it's not so easy. (Some other time I'll talk a bit about what I'm actually thinking when complimented, and why it doesn't convince me of what the more logical level of my brain thinks is true.)

It's not just attractiveness; I don't think that's even the biggest part. I also don't think anyone can love me once they get to know me well enough. The 'not attractive' issue is only part of it. This is such a standard component of bad self-image that I don't think it needs further discussion here.

I think this "no one can be attracted to me or love me" may be part of the reason that some PUA types can act like assholes without having started out as one. How can you possibly break a woman's heart if she can't possibly really care about what you think or do? I'm not a PUA type, and I certainly try to be careful not to hurt anyone, but my instincts are wrong in this. When I'm trying not to hurt anyone, I'm mostly trying to make sure they know me and my flaws so they won't build their hopes around an imaginary better me and have them dashed by getting to know me. Instead of thinking they might actually like me and build up hopes for a permanent attachment. Actually I encourage that kind of hurt in a bunch of unintentional ways, like by being full of compliments. But I've realized there isn't any possibility of a permanent attachment because to me, any love a woman shows me is just showing she doesn't understand me yet. How can I allow myself to fall in love with someone that I'm sure is going to reject me?

That is the current #1 reason that I am no longer and should not be dating.

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Here are four videos I've seen recently that show men as attractive and desirable, all by female artists.
Kate Ryan - Libertine
Nadia Ali - Fantasy (Album Edit) (Has a contortionist!)
Nadia Ali - Fantasy (Morgan Page Remix) (Nadia Ali carries more than her share with two videos for one song, and with her lyrics in general)
Jewel - What's Simple is True

Desire and compromise 2

A more organized, less rambling, and more complete version of the main theme from my last post.

The woman I'm dating right now does not have a conventionally attractive appearance. It's far enough from the conventionally attractive that she has had a lot of experience with people showing interest in her online profile then losing interest when they see her picture, and she had pretty much given up on it and was planning to remove it.

I find that I do not really desire her, but it seems so far that I do not really desire anybody. The idea of sex with anyone except my ex is just not real to me, and it seems to short-circuit my libido. Especially with conventionally attractive women; I recognize how good they look, but it's sort of irrelevant. I can intellectually think that sex with them would/should be desirable, but there isn't any of the kind of desire that previously set my mind fantasizing or fighting off fantasies. Some kind of automatic mechanism slams the shutters on that kind of thought before it gets started. Considering that the only exception to this is when I see my ex, I figure this is largely a mechanism I built up in the days I was married.

I can't tell how much of my lack of desire is from the general case and how much is specific to this one woman.

My girlfriend right now apparently finds me more or less exactly what she wished for, except that I'm messy. But I do not find myself desiring her sexually. I like her. I think she's a wonderful person. She is probably even more eager to please than I am, which is not something I ever thought I'd find. And she is extraordinarily good at those things that we allow ourselves to do; for example I've never been kissed anything like that before. And she has a extremely active imagination, highly compatible with mine. She is extremely kind and I think she would do just about anything for me; so much so that I'm very careful what I say about what I might like.

I think she deserves a good man, and I think given the search she's told me about over past years that she isn't all that likely to find a better match, and I know she thinks she won't. I've told her as delicately as I could that her body isn't really my ideal, and she basically responded with the idea that she could make me attracted to her some day (as she continues to lose weight, and as she is no longer limited by my abstinence.) I told her because I don't want to be lying to her when I do and say things to make her feel good.

The easy thing to say is that she wouldn't want someone who doesn't desire her. But I don't think that's really true. Certainly lots of rich men date or marry beautiful young women; and certainly they're mostly not fools enough to think it's them that's desired, rather than their money. I am in the position of the gold-digger, except I want the love and devotion she offers rather than her money. (I make quite a bit more, BTW, and I pay for everything unless she argues.) She may think that being with someone who acts out of love, and gratitude for what she does for him, is much better than being alone. I certainly would have been overjoyed had my ex treated me the way I would treat her, which is an extension of the way I act now.

But the way I act now I see as a problem. I'm driving and exaggerating and to some extent even playacting my interest. And that is exactly what I should be doing if we were already married and I felt the same way, but it's not what I think I should be doing now. Now is the time to show the ugliest truths.

So what I'm thinking I should do, for my sake rather than hers, is explain the problem and try to take it back to a friend kind of level; and resume looking, but in a very low-key, friendship only kind of way. See who I meet. I think she's very unique, but I was only looking a couple of months. How would I know?

Desire and compromise

Here's some rambling, poorly organized thoughts that I really want to get out but don't have the time to organize as I'd like.

So, a bit after I decided to date one woman exclusively, we talked and realized she would be unable to move to my house if we married; we'd have to buy a home near her so her kids can stay in the same school district. It's an artifact of the shared custody with the father. I'm quite attached to my house and own it outright (no mortgage), so moving is not appealing to me. Then, there's the fact I never wanted kids. And, though it shames me to say it, there's her appearance. Between full-body massage and play I've seen a lot of her. I kinda don't want to say anything, but I also I feel like I've got to unburden myself about this somewhere, and it's going to be here. [REDACTED - I vented about what I don't like and now I'm over it.]

I hate the fact that the looks bother me. But they do. Sexy play feels more like it's for her sake than mine. I never think about what I could do with her except when I'm trying to make her happy and do something for her. I react exactly like the stereotype of the low-sex-drive, not-stimulated-visually woman reacting to a man. A nice, eager-to-please woman to be sure, but still like the stereotype of the woman who gives sex due to kindness rather than her own desire.

On the other hand there are a lot of good things about her. She is probably even more eager to please me than I am to please her, which is not something I ever thought I'd find. And she is extraordinarily good at those things that we allow ourselves to do; for example I've never been kissed anything like that before. And she has a extremely active imagination, highly compatible with mine. She is extremely kind and I think she would do just about anything for me; enough so that I'm careful not to ask.

She's such a nice person, and it's not fair about her looks. I have this urge to make the universe more fair by marrying her and being devoted to her the rest of my life, which complicates all my thinking. I imagine she probably wouldn't want it for that reason. On the other hand, how many rich old men marry beautiful young women? The idea that she is a great person and deserves at least as good a guy as me seems at least better than a money motive.

Every time I think about breaking up with someone, I think, "How dare I? Doesn't she deserve as least as good as me?"

Another thing is that I really haven't wanted anyone that much since my ex left. Apparently I trained myself for monogamy really well, such that I can't just turn it off. Every time I see my ex (every other month or so) there is a flood of desire, but I haven't felt it for anyone else. So is that more the problem than my girlfriend's appearance?

PerverseCowgirl was correct in comments some time ago, it was too soon for me to be dating, except that I needed the experience. I needed to know someone could want me. It's still very hard to believe.

UPDATE after Ozymandias's comment: Weeks ago, I broached the subject of lack of attraction as delicately as I could. She reacted with verbal persuasion to stay with her.

I don't actually have much of a foot fetish.

I don't actually have much of a foot fetish. I thought I did because I'm so attracted to footjobs. But it's not actually that I have a lot of inherent interest in feet; it's that I have a much easier time imagining a woman touching me with her feet than the rest of her. I also have a thing for women who are wearing gloves for the same reason; I can more easily imagine a gloved than ungloved handjob.

This hangup I have that women don't want sex with me is one that is not matched by what women actually say. I know a couple of attractive women locally that have said they would be enthusiastic if I just weren't abstinent. I wonder if I will ever really get over the hangup other than with the woman I marry?

My Libido When Alone

I find the way libido changes with circumstance interesting and almost undocumented, so I write a lot about it here.

During my marriage, living and sleeping with a beautiful (to me anyway) woman who was only inclined to give me orgasms about every second weekend, giving her orgasms about three times a week, my libido was a tremendous drive. And in retrospect nearly torture; I absolutely compare it to the time with the broken neck and the Halo brace screwed into my skull. My thoughts were a constant loop of sex, my wife, frustration. I was strongly tempted to find sex elsewhere, and paying for it didn't sound inherently unappealing. Stereotypically male, more than usual for my age.

After almost a year alone, it has dropped off to about the same level it was between my first and second marriages, which is quite low. Porn that used to do it for me doesn't; I realize I'm looking out of habit rather than desire. I love cuddling and nonsexual physical touch but have no particular desire to take it further. I'm driven to find out if anyone wants me sexually but I do not want anyone that much. I want an emotional relationship, not sex.

So, pretty much stereotypical female desire patterns. I feel like there might be a revelation in there somewhere, but I can't find it.

I am certain that my libido will go back to the way it was once I'm back in a relationship with an attractive woman. For now, it's a big relief.

Ingve

It's always fun when friends give you a nickname for something they see as unusual about you. My asexual massage headspace was given a name years ago, Ingve.

I was a little worried doing a full-body workup (on Sparkly Girl) for the first time in years, because I did not have the foot fetish before. I thought foot massage might present a problem, but no, Ingve does not have a foot fetish. I shouldn't have been worried; Ingve never saw hips, buttocks, upper thighs, or the pectoral at the top of the boob as sexy either.

It's kind of a total focus that I don't really do in that many other circumstances. Feeling what you need to relax and work the knots out and imagining how I can supply it completely excludes other considerations. It's an asexual headspace but an affectionate one.

Topping

Recently I was talking with a friend who's in an open marriage; I'll call her Rook. I explained a lot of how I feel to her, and she reassured me that she would not sleep with me even if I were to weaken and ask, out of respect for my spiritual beliefs, which was nice to hear. She also told me that otherwise she'd very much like to, and that she had several friends who felt the same way, which was even nicer to hear. She got on to the subject of my barn and its interesting bondage opportunities (I live in an old farmhouse and have the barn as well), and later told me about her fascination with electricity and electrically administered pain and lots of fascinated detail about a woman she'd seen at a fetish event who was in a cage where passersby could shock her with various tools. ("Ow. Ow! Ow is not my safeword!")

I've said a couple of times that I had trouble domming my wife because of lack of communication; I just didn't know what she liked. And I've mentioned that in that, I lost contact with my dominant side to a large extent. Hearing Rook's story, which she clearly wanted to be part of, and would clearly enjoy having me be a part of it, let me know that yes the problem was exactly what I thought. I could not stop thinking about having her, or someone who likewise wanted it, in bondage in my barn with an electrical unit I could wire up (not bad with a circuit and I have an old electric fence unit designed for safely corralling animals smaller than human to use as a starting point.) I wanted to stand behind her, one hand on her throat, growling trash talk in her ear and shocking her thighs. Note I'm not relating intentions here, I'm just relating passing fantasies.* (Of a type I try to avoid because it's about a friend.)

Like I've read from several doms & switches, it's about the reactions of the sub. I've never had a desire to tie someone up and shock them, I now have a desire to tie up and shock someone who has arranged a safeword and safety parameters and will have massive orgasms from the process. The idea of domming for the sub never really clicked until I heard her describing it, and the desire in her voice as she did.

It also made me think of what I can and can't do. I can act well enough for RPGs and LARPs; I can look mean and sound mean, I've scared people before doing that. But I don't think I can really be scary to anyone who knows me. I got a compliment on my looks once that I value above all others: one friend, Sparkly Girl, said that no woman who looked into my eyes could be scared of me. But I wonder if that's the opposite of the "magic" of a good dom; an edge of danger and unpredictability that I don't have and don't want. Most people like being scared to one extent or another; you put yourself in my hands as a submissive and I'll die before I let you get really hurt, so there isn't that hint of real fear. I don't know how many people would require such an edge of fear to be happy with submission.

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* You don't need to warn me about how dangerous electricity can be; a very small current across the heart or lungs can easily stop them, for example, and it often causes muscle contractions that can lock one's hand onto a contact; this is just fantasy not a plan.