Friday, January 20, 2012

Self-righteousness and aversion fads

Over at NSWATM, there's an open thread regarding what people think is hot. I was struck by the number of comments saying things like "never a Republican" and "never a Christian". Those negative comments are pretty much always aimed at people like me; there are few negative comments aimed at looks (which is good that people are mostly sticking to the positive). But that kind of attitude is why I stay away from NSWATM most of the time despite being an Ozy fan.

I am turned off by the kind of self-righteousness and ignorant, prejudiced, insular groupthink it takes to make that kind of comment. One of the women I dated gave me a vibe of possibly being that way about people who are different in the sexual area, like LGBT/poly. So when I took her to Dorian's Parlor, I emailed some poly/bi friends and asked them specifically NOT to tone anything down around her or any other date I had. If she can't accept my friends, I'm not going to date her; and that goes for my friends with different politics or religion too.

I was thinking about commenting on this there, but I think it's probably a "never wrestle with a pig" situation.


  1. Hello M - yes such assertions are so thoughtless. People just don't think about who they hurt when they sprout prejudice or stereotype assertions.

    My particular bugbear last week was assertions that post-menopause women are necessarily unattractive and thus need to fear their husbands will run after younger, fertile women. grrrrrrr... so needlessly hurtful!

    You're right about wrestling pigs in mud tho .... Also, it's best not to let yourself get to wound up and involved with their prejudice. Concentrate on the good and uplifting and improve the world as you can... one blog post at a time!

    ....however, introducing someone in stages to your world might be sensible and thoughtful. I remember not so long ago I was quite innocent and clueless and appreciated time to become acustomed to the new world in which I found myself!

    :-) C

  2. Ugh, yeah, I saw that and frowned, but since I didn't TECHNICALLY tell people to not say "Not X" I let it through. :/

    FWIW, as an atheist socialist, I'm totally dating a Christian AND a Republican. They're not the same person, though.

  3. Only now that I think about it I totally do have a political test for getting in my vagina: you have to be a social libertarian (the anti-drug-war, pro-gay-marriage, pro-guns, pro-feminism, sex-positive sort), because you have to endure it when I get shouty about those issues. So. :)

  4. @Candice; yes grr! BTW I always had a thing for certain older women and now that I'm 42 I still have a thing for certain older women, but older is older now than it used to be. :)

    ....however, introducing someone in stages to your world might be sensible and thoughtful.

    Hmm, fair enough. I guess I'm trying to disclose whether the reaction would be "These people are freaks!" or "That was different for me."

  5. @Ozymandias, about the Christian and the Republican, good for all of you and I wish the three of you or two pairs of you depending on how you want to look at it, much joy!

    As far as your political test; as I think you already know, that's totally different. It's a little like the difference between "I honestly strongly prefer light skin in men" and "I don't like black men because they are [stereotype]". The motivation changes everything.

    If for example, you ran into a pro-drug-war person who honestly thought it was the best thing for everyone and could quote a bunch of statistics and evidence in favor of that position and make a coherent argument? You would think they're wrong, not horrible, I bet, and would not regard that position as making them automatically unattractive.

    BTW I'm still highly opposed to the War on Drugs and in favor of legalization.

  6. Dearest M - you are so kind! I think the basic point is that attraction is most often age appropriate - so you recognise a moving age range which is appropriate for you. Some young people however interpret their lack of attraction to older people as absolute unattractiveness to all people and mouth off which is cruel. I've used this experience of prejudice to train myself further to be more respectful of diversity.

    Re your friends - a sheltered christian girl might be shocked initially and need time to adjust. :-)

    Keep up the good work! C :-)

  7. I emailed some poly/bi friends and asked them specifically NOT to tone anything down around her or any other date I had. If she can't accept my friends, I'm not going to date her; and that goes for my friends with different politics or religion too.

    I think I love you. Srsly.

  8. I am an eccentric, creative type and have long been involved in theatre/opera and with artists of various stripes, and one of the things I've found disappointing is the great tendency for people in those groups to assume we all monolithically detest Christians, guns, etc. Not everyone, but I've heard it enough to be disappointed that some people I admire don't take into account the complexity of each person's frame of reference. I give other people wide berth to be themselves without my judgment, and I wish they'd give the same courtesy to others. I believe that if we all were monolithic in our views, the world would be incredibly boring, and what would we have to make art/opera/theatre about?

  9. @phlegmfatale, first, Goodness, Herself stopped by my very strange little corner of the blogosphere? I am always surprised when I see a name I know in the comments.

    Secondly, I have also noticed that phenomenon in some theatre, arts, and humanities types; being proud of how cosmopolitan and open-minded they are, while actually being open-minded only about people who are of the same mind. And imagining the half of their country represented by the opposition political party to be composed of Moorlocks.

  10. I'm gobsmacked you've seen me before, and blushed at the recognition. Today's my first time here, but I like your blog and I appreciate your frankness. :)

    Ditto what you said. Human nature makes us seek us/them scenarios to give us a sense of belonging, I think, except for oddballs like myself who feel they fit in everywhere (in small doses). :P I like a varied people-scape. THIS is one of the reason my gunnie friends are just the best, most diverse family of folks of whom I've ever been privileged to count myself a member. Among my closest and dearest friends are gay/poly/straight, most are economically conservative and socially liberal and very respectful of others and believe in freedom and self-sufficiency. This is a most contemplative, erudite group, too. Brainy people turn me on, so it's an exciting crowd. :)

  11. Well, frankness is the thing I think makes this blog worth doing. I admit a lot of things here that I would be quite leery of admitting to my IRL friends; way, way TMI. But, with a blog, you can read it or not, and it's a way to learn things about one person that you could not learn about anyone otherwise.