Pages

Monday, August 15, 2011

Desired Objectification

I think I've found one of the things that went wrong between my ex and I. I really want to understand what went wrong because I feel like that will help me with my feeling that something mysterious is wrong with me that will ruin any future relationships.

Recently I've seen a lot of women talking about fantasies involving objectification (esp. dollification), and read this post involving it: Sexual Harassment and Men. A particularly relevant paragraph, quoted in turn from Shakesville, is
It is a conversation I've had before with trans women, with fat cis women, women with noticeable physical disabilities, and with a women who has severe craniofacial deformities-the "I don't want to be treated like a piece of meat or an object or a possession, but because Visible Women are treated like pieces of meat and objects and possessions, the fact that I'm not makes me feel like I'm not even a woman" conversation...
Now, I've always considered myself extraordinarily good at not objectifying women. My recurring fantasies all focus on volition, which kind of rules out objectification. I'm also better than most at not staring, etc. But I'm just now realizing that this was probably one of the major sources of problems between my ex and I.

She used to say to me, "Do you mind if I look at you like a piece of meat?" I always said sure, while trying to hide the fact that the phrase made me kind of uncomfortable. I don't like the idea of being objectified. I think it would be flattering if someone wanted to dollify me, except that it would be insulting to my mind and will that the situation would be improved if they were left out. But the fact she was using that phrase indicates it wasn't an objectionable idea to her.

She told me once that she didn't feel attractive to me. This made no sense to me at the time, because I complimented her all the time. My pet names for her were things like Pretty, Beautiful, Gorgeous. There was the way I'd always run to her when she'd mention she was going to be naked, and tell her how gorgeous she was. And, of course, there was how much I always wanted sex with her.

But, I insisted on her mind and will being involved. Earlier, when I was less desperate, if she wasn't particularly into it, I'd suggest we save it up for later. I was always wanting her to do things involving her mind, like dressing up, playacting, telling me her ideas and fantasies. And it was to the almost total exclusion of wanting to use her body. And I think now that that was a constant insult to her looks. Men are expected to objectify, and lots of (most? nearly all?) women want it under the right circumstances, and I'm pretty sure she was one of them. So, I think always asking for her mind, and never just for her body, made her feel that her body was unattractive, which was of course one of the best possible ways to make sure she didn't want to have sex with me.

I think I'll probably write this up for her in an email and ask her about it; since she felt unattractive, maybe explaining it will help her now. That kind of thing doesn't go away with time all that quickly.

8 comments:

  1. An interesting theory about your ex, and quite possibly true. I keep hearing that many (maybe even most) women want to feel sometimes that their partner is so turned on that he just "can't help himself" and fucks the hell out of them with no regard for gentleness or consent. This way of thinking is completely foreign to me, and for the record the way you treated your ex (being really appreciative and complimentary but always involving her brain and feelings in the sex) is exactly what I like. So there are definitely women out there who would appreciate you exactly the way you are!

    Oddly, I've just realized that Minx and I are like you and your ex, but with roles reversed. I don't think Minx is terribly dissatisfied with things or feels unattractive, but he often expresses an interest in me objectifying him to a much greater extreme than I currently do (he'd like to be woken up and "raped," for instance) and I have a really hard time disregarding his feelings/brain/personality/needs enough to do that stuff. It feels too mean. :P

    I really want to understand what went wrong because I feel like that will help me with my feeling that something mysterious is wrong with me that will ruin any future relationships.

    Good call! Analyzing my own failed marriage - and getting to the point where I understood everything that went wrong - was the single best thing I did to get over the divorce, and of course my newfound knowledge was really helpful when I started dating again.

    I'm really proud of you for taking time out from dating to work on yourself, by the way. It's scary and difficult to confront your issues head on instead of drowning them in someone new, but the results are well worth it. I'm pulling for you! <3

    ReplyDelete
  2. ...For the record, I also love the idea of a man rendered helpless by my extreme hotness...but for me the ideal outcome would be a lot less rapey and a lot more spontaneous-ejaculation-without-anything-even-touching-his-penis-y. Plus a healthy dose of begging. :)

    ReplyDelete
  3. Thanks, PerverseCowgirl!

    "It feels too mean. :P" Yeah, that's how I feel; plus also too stereotypically "bad man".

    I think it might be less likely for Minx to be hurt by lack of objectification because the culture doesn't present that as a normal reaction to male beauty. He might especially appreciate the objectification when he's dressed in a feminine way, though.

    "...For the record, I also love the idea of a man rendered helpless by my extreme hotness...but for me the ideal outcome would be a lot less rapey and a lot more spontaneous-ejaculation-without-anything-even-touching-his-penis-y. Plus a healthy dose of begging. :) "

    Sounds like a lot of fun! :)

    ReplyDelete
  4. Very interesting. For me, I want it both ways. I want Clint to be into who I am and the nice package I am in. I absolutely love turning the heads of strangers and even enjoy the wolf whistle and catcalls. I want to play and engage, but sometimes, I want to feel like he just can't help himself (with consent of course). There is a lot of power in feeling like a goddess, physically and mentally.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Penny, I think you can have it both ways as long as you are willing to acknowledge one way as play. A partner can only be one of those for real (and it better be the one in control of himself).

    ReplyDelete
  6. Huh, people are incredibly varied in their sexual needs, aren't they? I don't am not sure if what I like counts as objectification. I tend to want intense physical stuff (and get really uncomfy when somebody treats me as precious and fragile), but don't really want it framed as "Me Big Man Use You Sexy Woman". I think of it more as, "hey, we're both animals; let's be rough and animal-like together". I don't mind being pinned down and roughed up by somebody who's fundamentally selfish, but if they treat me like I'm weak, or try to make me weak... ugh. Is that objectification or not?

    Best of luck with the healing from your divorce.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Rae, I don't think that preference determines objectification; your partner could do what you like in an objectifying or non-objectifying way. If the person roughs you up because that's how they treat women, or they imagine that's how all women like to be treated, that seems objectifying. However, if it's because it's what you like, or because it's what you both like, that doesn't seem objectifying. In the first case you are treated as an object, in the second you are treated as a person who likes rough, animalistic play.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Ah, if that's how the definition works, I'm definitely not into objectification. (I'm not into being feminised more generally.)

    ReplyDelete