Sunday, June 19, 2011

Desire and compromise

Here's some rambling, poorly organized thoughts that I really want to get out but don't have the time to organize as I'd like.

So, a bit after I decided to date one woman exclusively, we talked and realized she would be unable to move to my house if we married; we'd have to buy a home near her so her kids can stay in the same school district. It's an artifact of the shared custody with the father. I'm quite attached to my house and own it outright (no mortgage), so moving is not appealing to me. Then, there's the fact I never wanted kids. And, though it shames me to say it, there's her appearance. Between full-body massage and play I've seen a lot of her. I kinda don't want to say anything, but I also I feel like I've got to unburden myself about this somewhere, and it's going to be here. [REDACTED - I vented about what I don't like and now I'm over it.]

I hate the fact that the looks bother me. But they do. Sexy play feels more like it's for her sake than mine. I never think about what I could do with her except when I'm trying to make her happy and do something for her. I react exactly like the stereotype of the low-sex-drive, not-stimulated-visually woman reacting to a man. A nice, eager-to-please woman to be sure, but still like the stereotype of the woman who gives sex due to kindness rather than her own desire.

On the other hand there are a lot of good things about her. She is probably even more eager to please me than I am to please her, which is not something I ever thought I'd find. And she is extraordinarily good at those things that we allow ourselves to do; for example I've never been kissed anything like that before. And she has a extremely active imagination, highly compatible with mine. She is extremely kind and I think she would do just about anything for me; enough so that I'm careful not to ask.

She's such a nice person, and it's not fair about her looks. I have this urge to make the universe more fair by marrying her and being devoted to her the rest of my life, which complicates all my thinking. I imagine she probably wouldn't want it for that reason. On the other hand, how many rich old men marry beautiful young women? The idea that she is a great person and deserves at least as good a guy as me seems at least better than a money motive.

Every time I think about breaking up with someone, I think, "How dare I? Doesn't she deserve as least as good as me?"

Another thing is that I really haven't wanted anyone that much since my ex left. Apparently I trained myself for monogamy really well, such that I can't just turn it off. Every time I see my ex (every other month or so) there is a flood of desire, but I haven't felt it for anyone else. So is that more the problem than my girlfriend's appearance?

PerverseCowgirl was correct in comments some time ago, it was too soon for me to be dating, except that I needed the experience. I needed to know someone could want me. It's still very hard to believe.

UPDATE after Ozymandias's comment: Weeks ago, I broached the subject of lack of attraction as delicately as I could. She reacted with verbal persuasion to stay with her.


  1. *thwack*

    You should not date someone you are not attracted to. That is a terrible idea. I mean, would you like it if a woman who was not attracted to you married you because you were "so sweet"? Of course not! You want someone who desires you for you, and she wants the same thing.

  2. I think the thing is, Ozymandias, that that's easy for us to say. Although you are like me paranoid about your looks, you haven't actually suffered from repeated lack of interest over decades, because you're actually pretty hot no matter what you think. You don't have the situation where people keep losing interest after they see your picture, over and over. Sure, we'd all prefer to be loved because of our looks; but I can easily imagine why someone would prefer to be loved despite their looks over not being loved at all.

    I've really got to take some time tonight to organize some of this into a new post that actually hangs together.

  3. Also, I mentioned the looks issue to her weeks ago, as nicely as I could, she basically reacted by persuading me not to give up. I updated the above accordingly.

  4. It sounds like that there is more going on here than physical chemistry(don't ignore that pheromone detector in your nose the right person will smell right). The moving and children issues are major stumbling blocks.

  5. haven't actually suffered from repeated lack of interest over decades, because you're actually pretty hot no matter what you think.

    Not for "decades", no, because Ozy is zygote-young and "decades" would take us into pedophile territory. But she has been rejected before (and written open about it on her blog), because nobody is universally attractive.

    We think Ozy is hot, but a guy who likes voluptuous women would not. I fit many of the standards of conventional hotness, but if a guy is into preppy women or tanned women or petite women, he'll pass me over (not to mention that sometimes a guy is gay, or asexual, or already interested in someone else, and will reject a hot woman for one of those reasons). IT HAPPENS TO EVERYONE, NOT JUST YOU. Also, you've been married twice. That's two women who wholeheartedly agreed to spend the rest of their lives with you (it may not have worked out that way, but surely they did enter into the marriage in good faith, not thinking "Yeah...I'll give this five years"). And you've had plenty of other interest from women besides.

    I know I'm gonna sound loud and rude and mean, but I have to rant here: on this blog and elsewhere, I've seen you insisting that women don't find men physically attractive, and specifically that they don't find you attractive, despite all manner of evidence to the contrary. Furthermore, as much as you've said that this stems from your own psychological issues, it's clear from the way you word many of your posts and comments that you don't really believe this. Deep-down, I think you honestly believe that women aren't sexually attracted to men (especially you) and that women - or at least some women - always get the partner(s) they want and never get rejected.

    Honestly, this attitude could very likely be giving you an offputting vibe that causes some women to reject you - which you'll then use to prove your neurosis right, and it becomes a whole vicious circle thing.

    It's time to attack these beliefs full-force. I recommend the cognitive behavioural therapy book Mind Over Mood. I'm currently using the exercises in the book to try to reshape the whole "All men are hostile and dangerous" thing that my loving mother (and a series of bad experiences) implanted in my head when I was little. Like you, I technically understand that this conviction isn't true, but I can't feel the untrueness. I can't shake the idea that there's a rapist hiding behind every tree and the only place I'm truly safe is in my apartment. So it's time for both of us to get help.

  6. p.s. I'm sorry for yelling, but I yell with love. No, really, I do. I, too, was once convinced that I was undesirable (despite having had boyfriends, sexual partners, etc.) and I managed to pull myself out of that destructive thinking; I want to grab your hand and haul you up to a happier and more self-accepting plane, too. WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. :P

  7. PerverseCowgirl, first, a lot of what you said is correct because deep down I do feel "women don't find men physically attractive, and specifically that they don't find you attractive", despite what I know with my conscious mind.

    However, in this case, I was not talking about me. I have NOT suffered from repeated lack of interest over decades. I suffer from being crazy, not from lack of interest. That's what I meant by "easy for us to say". The not-conventionally-attractive woman I was dating is who I was talking about. Actually, though, I found out that that problem is recent (past several years) for her, as is most of her weight problems; I misunderstood some of the things she told me. I think if you reread the comment with that in mind it will take on a whole different meaning.

  8. P.S. Thank you for yelling with love. :)

  9. However, in this case, I was not talking about me.

    YOU'D BETTER NOT HAVE BEEN! *Shakes fist at you, then sneaks off to blush and facepalm in private*